Friday, 13 October 2006


A while ago I talked about the need to make certain things more obvious. There was my idea of a circlet of singledom and the possibility of glowing auras to indicate levels of attraction or approachability.

Now I believe we need something more.

I believe there should be a way for women to identify, for other women, men who are sleazy.

I don't remember if I've mentioned it before, but there's a guy I have to deal with sometimes who makes me want to throw up. The first time we met, he flirted WILDLY with me for an hour or so (no exaggeration, wild, obvious, trying-to-get-me-into bed flirting) before finally mentioning his girlfriend. Whom he was soon going to marry. I thought it was disgusting.

I was so creeped out by this guy flirting while in a serious relationship without even being upfront about his relationship. I felt sorry for his girlfriend being with a guy who showed no respect for her or their relationship.

I had forgotten about this guy until last week when we crossed paths again. I avoided sitting near him but I got a good view of him sleazing away with another girl all afternoon.

Now, I understand the difference between a charismatic "people person" and a greasy flirt. This guy was the latter. It's one thing to think and act like you're a lady's man when you're single, but I really think that kind of behaviour should stop once you're committed.

I worry for the women who are with these men. Their wives and girlfriends.

Maybe the poor fiance of this guy has no idea what a sleaze-ball flirt he is when he's out. She needs to know. She has a right to go into her marriage knowing that her hubby's going to be a massive flirt with all the pretty ladies and that he doesn't mind leaving her existence out of his conversations. So, I'm suggesting some sort of way for us to mark these men as a warning to their ladies. Kind of like the Glowing Auras of Attraction, or Circlets of Singledom. (Heh heh... GAA and CoS!)

The trick is that we'd have to make sure people weren't abusing the "identification system" in any way. Maybe it would take three strikes before the guy was fully tagged. Like, if I saw this guy and wiggled my nose at him (that'd be the secret tagging system, you see) and then he was out the next weekend and another girl discovered his untrustworthiness, she'd nose wiggle him and then the next month a third lady would wiggle her nose at him after he pulled the same trick and unbeknownst to him, he'd head on home with a large yellow snake imprinted on his forehead.

Once he arrived home, his future wife would know that he was a yucky flirty bum bum head and could plan accordingly.

On how exactly to kick him to the curb.


Blogger cocoa_no_gogo said...

Is it OK for married/non-single men to flirt if they first reveal their status or it is clearly known? And I don't mean flirting with every women that comes by, but instead the flirting with the occasional someone who sets off certain chemicals in your brain that force you not to just sit there talking about the mundane. And, I also don't mean the "let's have sex" flirting but rather the "gosh I wish I was single so that I could get to know you better (and then maybe have sex)" flirting.

Do single women find this creepy/sleazy? And/or a waste of time?

Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:37:00 pm  
Blogger Victoria said...

This is probably a personal thing, and at the risk of offending/upsetting folks, I'll babble about what I think...

Sometimes it's ok for a non-single guy to flirt if their status is clearly known. But, generally if it's "harmless" flirting. The problem is that "harmless" may feel different for different people. I know I've been hanging out with non-single guy friends and just having fun and then later been accused of flirting with them.

There's a delicate balance between showing attraction and being creepy. It really depends on the guy and the girl and the situation. (And probably his relationship status/stability?)

Generally, I'm uncomfortable when a non-single guy is flirting with me. I end up feeling disloyal to his girlfriend and wondering if he's a cheating bum bum head. That said, I'm also sometimes obvlivious to flirting and will think a guy's just being nice.

My best guy friends are non-single guys who do not flirt with me. Or flirt with me in a stupidly obvious way IN FRONT of their girlfriends (who are my best friends and know it's just joking) Example: Him: Let's ditch this party and go have hot sex in the car Victoria. Me: What, like last night? Him: Yeah, baby! His wife: Yeah right, dork. You were alseep and snoring at 9pm last night! Me and his wife: LOL!

So. In summary... Personally, I find flirting by a non-single guy disturbing at the least, creepy/sleazy at the most. For me it just shows some weird lack of loyalty from the guy and... me?

(it is, however, never quite that simple, nor that black and white)

Creepy and a waste of time...

What do you think?

Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:52:00 pm  
Blogger cocoa_no_gogo said...

I don't find your comments upsetting or offensive.

I'll give you my thoughts as briefly as possible since this is a blog dedicated to helping single people.

I have been married for over ten years and have no plans to cheat on my wife and if I ever did, I would be crushed (whether or not she found out). But marriage is not the end all for everything and it does not prevent your brain from being your brain (esp after the first 5 years or so) and there will always be certain people that you want to make a connection with just as there will always be certain Pink Floyd songs that do it for you. I think that lighthearted flirting is an OK outlet for all that and it certainly makes life less dull.

BUT....what I think doesn't really matter b/c if the women I am occasionally flirting with do not think the same way I do (and I can not possibly expect them to) then that's something for me to consider carefully. --- Which is why asked you.

One other quick point:
The flip side of "If I didn't turn into such a dork, I'd probably be less single." is "If I weren't single, I'd probably be less of a dork" meaning that: it wasn't until after I was after married that I was able to really enjoy talking to/flirting with women b/c there was no longer any pressure to actually make something happen. There's some irony for you.

Anyway, I appreciate your honesty, I enjoy reading your blog, and I hope you don't find me creepy. By the way, what are you wearing right now?

Sunday, October 15, 2006 8:56:00 am  
Anonymous Laura said...

I don't know, some guys are just sort of flirty by nature. But that doesn't necessarily make it unacceptable. I think where I draw the line, usually, is what their intentions are. If they're just flirting but have no intention of anything beyond the flirting, that's usually okay. But I think if a guy is in a committed relationship and he's flirting in a touchy-feely way (as opposed to a verbal way) that's also not cool.

Where it generally gets awkward for me is the fact that I'M in a committed relationship, and sometimes if another guy who's also in a committed relationship flirts with me, my boyfriend would get very upset if he knew about it. So I generally avoid any of those types of conversations with other guys.

Sunday, October 15, 2006 11:21:00 am  
Blogger Victoria said...

If we all just ignore the fact that I slept in til 1pm this afternoon, I'll go ahead and say good morning anyway!
It's hard to be brief about something this interesting, isn't it? : )
I totally understand what you're saying about the fact that there are just always going to be some people you connect with. Totally. It's unavoidable unless, maybe you lock yourself up in your house and never leave. Ever. ;) (In fact, I've got a post coming that talks about the fact that I was just terribly attracted to a guy who was unavailable... or was he?)
And yes, lighthearted flirting is fun and makes life less dull. All work and no play makes... etc.
It's neat that you asked me, and I was interested to find out that after all my babbling, my personal answer was no, not really.
I wish I had more single girl friends because I'd really like to start asking around to find out if this is my own thing or if this is a common feeling for single girls. I'd guess from the amount of stories I hear about married men cheating that not everyone feels the same way as I do. :/ I don't know if my wee opinion is reason enough for you to stop innocently flirting with people you are attracted to. I may be over-reacting. Really.
I'll even admit to the fact that I enjoy flirting with other guys when I'm in a relationship sometimes (when drinking, usually! lol) because I know I'm not going to be taking them home. Can I *be* any more contradictory? :)

As for the whole "dork" thing? Yeah, I totally understand there too. I am a complete dork with a guy I like, but a totally normal and easy to talk to person if I'm not interested in the guy. Sigh. Irony indeed!

So Coco no Gogo, my friend, I too appreciate that you've asked me and aren't upset by my silly babbling of an aswer. Life isn't black and white (damnit, it'd be so much easier if it were) so I enjoy trying to figure it all out and talking with other people is part of that and makes life fun :D
I don't find you creepy at all, no. I've enjoyed your comments and questions!
As for what I'm wearing, you really don't want to know. It'd ruin your image of me as a total hottie! ;)(It's a rainy Sunday afternoon and I just woke up...heh.)

Hmm... I wonder if anything I said made sense?

Sunday, October 15, 2006 2:05:00 pm  
Blogger Victoria said...

Yay Laura! Another female's input :)

Yeah, some guys are really just the flirty type. It is their intentions that matter, true. Maybe I have a hard time figuring out what their intentions are? Maybe I have a hard time deciphering "innocent"? I know I'm still uncomfortable with the verbal flirting. Maybe I'm a prude! lol

Totally interesting that there's a flip side to the flirting coin and that you deal with "flirting issues" as well in your own relationship.

Maybe someone needs to study flirting. Master's thesis anyone? Like, what's the point of flirting? Is it to merely interact? Or is it to test the potential of entering a relationship with that person. What's the biological point? Do other animals flirt? Are humans insane?

Runs off to call the local University to start a PhD in the study of flirting! ;)

Sunday, October 15, 2006 2:10:00 pm  
Blogger cocoa_no_gogo said...

Thanks for your help -- I think.

I am glad I asked the question, and now armed with the knowledge gained from your vacillation, I will have an extra martini at lunch and then head up to 3rd floor accounting to terrorize the women there. Good thing I thought to wear my luckiest gold chain today.

When it comes to the physiology of sex and flirting, check out Jared Diamond's "Why is Sex Fun?"

Monday, October 16, 2006 12:29:00 pm  
Blogger Victoria said...

Cocoa (sorry, I think I missed your A earlier... um... if that matters.)
I'm just wondering if you have pre-curled your chest hair to go with your lucky gold chain? If not, you may want to consider that.

Also, are you opening your shirts to mid-chest or?

Yours in eternal vacillation,

Monday, October 16, 2006 6:04:00 pm  

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